Episode Transcript
(This is an experimental transcript)
yeah, this has made me think, maybe I should wear it on the front of my body for a trial, like after I leave, and we do see it and I'm like, ah, and maybe it's maybe it's different. Welcome to Studio, the Ja Ja Ja Ne Ne Ne podcast. You're listening to one of our episodes in which we speak to artists about their curatorial practices and the platforms they initiate. For this episode, we brought our recording studio to Fanfare in Amsterdam. Hello, my name is Arif and I'm here with my co host Andrea. Hi. How are you doing? I'm good. I'm very happy to be here. Me too. Our guest of this episode is the Groaming Gallery. Hello. Hi. Hi. Thank you for being here. Thanks for having me. Us. We are recording this episode at Fanfare in the theater building in Amsterdam. And Andrea, you know more about this place. Yeah, Fanfare is a platform that organize talks, shows, experimental lectures, and all sorts of conversations and program around experimenting with graphic design and with design. And it's also located in a very special building that is called Teterode, which in which we are right now, we are in the top of Tetterode. And Tetterode has been was squatted and has been a studio and a residency for artists in Amsterdam since 1982. So it's a quite special situation that we are recording here. I think our listeners cannot see, but we have a great panorama of the city of Amsterdam. And it's pretty great actually today, the panorama, but it's still quite beautiful. So we are with the Groaming Gallery. And I'll just quickly introduce the gallery to you. So Groaming Gallery is a roaming gallery in a backpack. Anyone can submit to showing their work in the gallery. And it's being carried around roughly 75% to 90% of the time inside and outside the EU, if we're lucky. Each resident has a month with a couple of week showings throughout the year. And then the locations are posted on the day and you can DM for location. So that's on Instagram. What's on show in the gallery at the moment? So we literally just put in a new artist about an hour before I got here. And his name is Lee McDonald. He is a British artist, very British name, as you can tell. And he now lives in the Netherlands and he's based in Groningen. And he, so it's a 2D work, but he mainly works in sculpture. So it's really interesting to see how he kind of approached the month long residency. And you can see that there's a link to his Instagram page and he makes sculptures, moving sculptures with things that he finds on the street or on his kind of day to day walks. And I find them also really funny. And his work's funny. He's pretty funny also himself, but he is also great with making his own machines. So I think he's a fascinating artist. So check him out further. And the backpack is here, of course. How should we describe it? It's quite a large backpack, one of these waterproof ones that you can roll up a little bit at the top. Yeah, at the top. It's like a courier backpack, I think, originally. And actually it's a leftover from an ex. So thank you ex for this, because they're not cheap as well. So I'm glad I got it in our breakup. But so it's a big courier backpack. You fold it at the top, waterproof, and then you have this big A3 kind of plastic frame. So that is the host. That's the dimensions of the artwork that I can carry with me. And sometimes I see these backpacks and then there is a kind of almost an ad for a bike courier firm or something. Or did you kind of install the case on the top of it? No, it was like this. Yeah, it was like that. But they're super rare because I need a new one. There's a lot of wear and tear that goes actually into it. And a lot of the art sometimes transfers onto the frame. But they're rare. I think they're actually originally like over 300 euros. So it's wild. So I'm on the quest now trying to find a secondhand one. Or if anyone wants to donate one, then get in touch. But yeah, there's a lot of care that goes into it in a seemingly quick approach. But I'm enjoying it. We're enjoying it. So yeah. And what does it take? What kind of care goes into it? How is it curated? Yeah, the curation. So I don't really have, like I said, anyone can submit. I don't care if you've studied. I don't care about any institution. Your mom can submit, your dog can do a drawing, someone who's exhibited in the Stedelijk can put something in. But I do, there are some rules. One, it has to be lightweight so I can carry it. Because I do carry it pretty much five to six days out of the week. It's with me. I take it to work. I take it to socialize. I take it to drink, like everywhere. So lightweight. It also, if I find something that you've submitted offensive in any way, whether it's racist, ableist, whatever, then I will say no. And that's just my answer and you have to deal with it. But no one so far has done that. So those are the only two kind of rules that lightweight necessarily have to be on paper or A3. Some people have given me sculptures or sound pieces that I also carry with me. And then it can be anything. And I'm not kind of judging what is good art and bad art. And as I'm saying this, I'm doing the like quotations. I don't care. I'm not there to also judge. I also think that's a whole other discussion in of itself and how we see things and each other. But going back to the gallery, yeah, that's it. They're the only rules. How do you carry sound pieces? The sound. So the one I carried a sound piece by an artist based in London, Shanice, who's doing amazing work. And so we had a Bluetooth speaker and I just hooked it to the edge of the bag. And then she gave me a 2D print and then we slotted it in there. So yeah, that's how we've done it so far. I mean, I'm open to other suggestions. And then I was playing as you were walking. Yeah, as I was walking, as I was biking, I went on the boat. I mean, thank God it was like, I really liked the track. It was like a 90s dance track, really beautiful. Again, you can look back on the Instagram and hear it. So it helped that I also liked the song. But yeah, there were times which I didn't play it. But specifically when I was on the bike, I would play it because I wanted this moment where I could go past and people would do like double turns or just think of it as like a sonic glitch, you know. So that was fun. And what other artists did you show? Yes, let me get up the library now, I think because we've been doing this for a year. And it was kind of birthed through, I think during Corona. So we have, okay, we have an artist that was based in Leeds, who did an artwork. Her name's Kelly P Culver. Did an artwork called I Love You, You Love Me. You're actually in the video. I am in this video, yes. You didn't even know. We then have another artist called Raffaender, who also created a QR code. And as you, when you clicked on this QR code, you also went to a filter. And it would say this relationship is going nowhere. And that was in Paris, because I was in Paris at the time, and I was given stickers. So I posted some of these stickers also in the underground in the metro. I had another really interesting one from Kimberly Beach, based in London. And we studied together actually for a master's. And she made a work which says, I wasn't aware I was working class until I came here. Now I cannot forget it. So she makes again, great work that talks a lot about being working class and in this art world and what comes with that. So she's also another interesting one to check out. Thank you. And since you bring up this topic of the art world and maybe the barriers it comes with, where did the project come from in that dimension? So how does it relate to commercial galleries? Yeah, okay. So I guess for clarity, it's something that at the moment I don't have funding, so I don't pay. We don't pay, but I pay for the printing. And if anyone reaches out or is interested in the artist, they would get 100% of the sales. The sales are nothing to do with me. It would be between the artist and the person who reaches out. But that's the next step. So that's where we're different. I don't take any money. I print the work, but the next step that I would really like to be able to do is get funding and then pay people who submit. But all the work is usually, I think most of the time, I think Leigh submitted something especially for this, but it's work that is already pre-existing so far. So it operates, I think, completely differently. I kind of see it as a love project and then I'm basically maybe like a walking PR, but I hate PR. But you know what I mean? I'm kind of doing it for the love of art. That sounds really cheesy, but it's true. And I carry these things with me, so I have to resonate with them because I actually, I feel it. And sometimes I don't want to carry this thing on my... It's big. It's pretty big. So there is like a physical action that comes with it. So it also helps me move in certain ways. I think I walk a lot more because I actually just want people to see things more. The next thing I really want to happen though is people that people talk to me on the street. Not many people ask me questions so far. I don't know whether that's an Amsterdam thing or I'm trying to work out why, but I'd love people to ask more about the art. Maybe I just need to initiate it. Who knows? But for example, how do people know that it's a gallery? Yeah, good question. So the first, I think 10 artists or the first year, I don't put any logo, no name, no at, and there was nothing. So you didn't know unless you perhaps saw me regularly, then you would notice that there was something that was changing every month and sometimes weekly depending on the time. But now as of last week, I've written on the side of the bag at Groaming Gallery. But to begin with, I kind of wanted to see what would happen if I did that. And if anyone even noticed or if it was interesting or if it did indeed strike a conversation, but actually it hasn't. So it's really hard to talk to or get strangers or randoms to talk to you. So I've just put this app Groaming, so hopefully it'll make it easier. I was also wondering, you mentioned that you travel a lot with the, like you cross borders of countries. And I was wondering, did you ever have an issue with, because art is not the same to bring a bag than to bring a bag that is art, no? Like for art, you have to pay taxes, you have to declare it, you have to do all these things. And that's the funny difference between, yeah, it's a bag, but it's also art, but it's also a bag. Did you encounter this situation when you were crossing borders? No, I think the only thing actually that happens, that is something that I encounter, I think is the physicality of it. Like it's like a larger than life backpack, right? So when I always just take hand luggage, like if I fly and then it just, I think is on the edge, I think maybe pushing the edge, I don't want to expose it too much just in case any flight attendants are here, but of the size limit, right? So I'm always kind of like, I try and like squash it in, it's meant to fit into this like small hand luggage thing and it doesn't really do that. But because I can physically put it on my back, it kind of tricks the system a little bit. But that's the only thing that I've encountered so far. And yeah, that hasn't, or a conversation or an issue hasn't happened yet. Touch wood. How about it being art? And you carry your own stuff inside or not? Oh yeah, it's always just my own stuff. So when I went on holiday, like pleasure, business, all the things that happen in between, yeah, like every day I'm like, there's tampons in there, pens, books, diaries, clothes, food. It is really like an everyday functioning bag. It also reminds me of the project by Martín La Roche, Musée Légitime. Tell me about it. I don't know. Well, it's a museum in a hat and there's a collection, but what's on display always changes. And Martine is kind of carrying the museum and sometimes takes it off and shows it. I love that. But of course, like a different relation to the public here, but I think you both deal with this issue of how do you, maybe also you don't want everyone to know. I think it's also a nice experience of seeing this beautiful backpack and you don't need to know that it's. Yeah, I think that's what I tried to, was trying to suss out and kind of observe and see how people would also observe me and the work. Because basically they look at me first when we're like, usually when you're walking along the street, they see this body and then maybe if they turn around, they'll see what's on my back. So that has also been interesting. Like I was saying, it really does change subconsciously and consciously how I move through certain spaces when I have this on my back. And it's often, yeah, this has made me think maybe I should wear it on the front of my body for a trial, like after I leave and do see if, and I'm like, ah, and maybe it's, maybe it's different. And then also with language, I'm here, I speak basic, basic Dutch. Maybe that'll also help that people speak to me because people don't talk to me really on the street in general. But I think again, maybe that's an Amsterdam thing. I'm not sure, but I'm going to give it a go after this. Thanks. Yeah. I do think people don't speak to each other so much, maybe in Dutch sometimes, but not randomly. Like, I don't know, what's your experience? Yeah. I mean, I am from a very talkative country, so I'm from Spain. So I think every, my standards are very high on small, small talk. I feel like here is like, I feel like no one really speaks to you, but I guess maybe it's also like a language thing. Like I don't really speak Dutch, so I cannot engage in small talk things. Yeah. But I feel, for example, in Spain, it's like everything, everything is a conversation. It's like, oh, so hot today. Or, you know, like, oh, what's that? What do you have? Ah, very beautiful. You know, like, so it's like everything is kind of, everyone is hanging out all the time, I feel. Yeah. It's more on the thing. Yeah. I mean, I miss that. I also spent some time in the north of England and it's way chattier than in the south, for example. But I'm going to give it a trial, this front facing backpack and see what happens. Yeah, because then it's like, obviously there's something going on. This is not a backpack. Yeah, yeah, exactly. This person is carrying something. Something. And then again, but also I like this idea of like walking glitches or, and it doesn't to me, I think it didn't really matter to begin with that people noticed or noticed that I'm doing this action. I think the main thing that I want to do as well is that the people who submit in the work, that I just travel with it physically or as much as possible and kind of give the work some, a chance to be seen. But it is, it works in a very, I think, subtle, let's say whispering way, like it's not about like attention. And, and it's also kind of looking at things and taking the time to see, really truly see and watch and look and listen, which I think is, I mean, I struggle with that anyway. But especially now with so much going on constantly that we just miss things all the time. Like I'm constantly missing things. So it's also a bit of that, that I wanted to kind of bring back into focus. Yeah, I actually, I wanted to ask because then obviously we are just so used to, to see all these images all the time and intentionally, we just encounter advertisement all the time. And also sometimes advertisement is art. So we encounter these kinds of images constantly, but then it's very actually kind of contradicting our conversation about like it being explained. Then it's actually kind of beautiful that someone saw that like on a, I don't know, second plane, like not, like not focus on it, but then they realize maybe three years later that that was art, you know, or that they saw, they, they saw an artist that maybe, I don't know, three years later, they really like, and they were like, I remember one day this image passed in the bag. Yeah. Yeah. And then it's also like a kind, kind of really beautiful experience because you don't really have to focus on it to experience it. It's also something that it just like comes across you. Yeah. Yeah. What you were saying. Yeah. I think that's the like poetics. I mean, I think I'm actually super poetic and romantic and all of this stuff. And that's kind of what I'm like, kind of like romancing the art, right? We go for long walks and we walk past, will you get noticed? Will you not get noticed? Will you write about the art in the newspaper? Who knows? Who cares? Do you care? It doesn't matter. Do we matter? Do they, but you know, like all of these things keep going on and on and on. Yeah. Yeah. Still, I kind of as well with the gallery, just trying to, I think, yeah, learn by doing. I'm a big, big like action person, I think. And most of the people that have reached out to the gallery are also like fellow action people, if that makes sense. It's been interesting to see who submits and also maybe who doesn't. I think a lot of people are shy. You were saying that it has this romantic relation to the work. Yeah. And how is the breakup? Because after a month, it's, then you have to kind of, what kind of feelings do you go through? Yeah, I think it is like a really nice mutual breakup, first of all, because the boundaries are set from the beginning. It's pretty clear. It's like a month residency. Sometimes maybe a few days more, a few days less. And when does that happen? A few days more? Usually that's down to me. Usually it's down to me and not through like favoritism or like on purpose. It's down to, oh my God, shit, I have four jobs and now I forgot I need to print something. That's it. It really is. It's also part of my life. It's one of my, I think, yeah, it's one of my jobs that I do. But juggling is hard. But this is really like a really calm, peaceful, you know what's happening, you know, when something begins, you know, when something ends. So I think it's enjoying. The breakup is good. It's a big, like a polyamorous gallery, you know. I was wondering besides the sound intervention, that sounds quite challenging. What were the most challenging arts that you had to deal with in terms of, I don't know, even they were heavy, they were difficult to produce. Yeah, that's a good one. I think first of all, what is the most challenging right now is the weather. So part of the gallery, I used to have like a little lid, which kind of sits on top of the artwork, which protects the print a bit more. But now it's like core peak, like rainy season. Sometimes water will leak into it. And then so I have to take it out and clean it kind of like every day. Otherwise, you know, it'll mold. And sometimes I've collected like about what, 15 centimetres of water in my backpack. So I have to check kind of like every day. Thank God they're not originals and I do the printing. So wetness, dampness is also a thing, especially if there was an artist called Luca, all of their names on Instagram, the full names, who put in a sculpture. So it was, I think, flat, like parasol, parasol flat, you know, when you're sunny and you have these parasols, it provides you shade on the beach. Am I saying that right? Yeah. And he had these parasols from Italy and he stuffed those in the gallery, in the front of the backpack. But I think sound is probably the, let's say the hardest quote unquote, perhaps, to host because you want people to notice it. But then I like the idea that it's passing by. How often do you play it? Do you play it 24 hours a day? You know, how hardcore are you going to go? But in terms of weight, I've been pretty strict with what I can carry. So I haven't had a break so far. I was imagining the contribution of our previous guest in this podcast, Milena Bonilla. She may give you some, she was working with stones and I was like, imagine Milena Bonilla is like, OK, this is my art. It's like four granite stones. Wow. I mean, then maybe we can do a collaboration, like a performative six hour. I mean, I'd be into it. Get in touch. Let me know. But mostly like people have to contribute thinking about your back health, no? Yeah. Yeah. They think they have to think about the human. And I guess this is where the maybe the relationship comes in. Right. It's not like a one off gesture that doesn't stay stationary or static like it moves. I breathe and sometimes and breathing gets harder. The heavier things are. But it does. The gallery coincides with what I also have in my back. So that's also partly my fault sometimes. If I have my laptop and my books, then I only have myself to blame. It's not the artist's fault. Oh no. There's already people calling in to be featured. I mean, that'd be amazing. Yeah. It's like those hotlines. You need a phone line, an old school phone line here. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, we have a contribution. I would love that. We're almost at the end of the recording. But what, how do you see the future? For example, I was thinking, how do you feel about art fairs or typical kind of gallery gatherings? Is that something that you want to stay far away from? My God. Okay. I need to think this is what happened when you record something live that I was like, Oh, my initial response was that I couldn't think of anything worse. And so I'm just going to have another like one minute thing. Yeah. No, the answer is still no. I think it's not something that I'm interested in. It really is. I also want that if someone reaches out and wants to buy an artwork from the artist, I want nothing to, like it's a hundred percent theirs and their money. It's their work. So yeah, no art fairs. All I would like, what I'm seeking now is funding, but with no ties. I have no cuts. I would like this to start being other cities, not even just cities, villages, towns across the world. So maybe I give people a backpack and they're in, I don't know, Copenhagen or Luton where I'm from or Barbados. And then so the gallery is kind of starts to become bigger than just me and where I can move around to, because that's also limited on time, space, money, et cetera, et cetera. So with also grooming, which was super important to me, I wanted to disrupt as much as one can, or I can, these hierarchies and elitist institutions and kind of shake it a little bit. I mean, to a point, I'm also come from an institution myself, but I'm super aware of power dynamics within that and who is seen and more importantly, who isn't seen and furthermore and furthermore. So yeah, art fairs and other spaces like that aren't what we're focused on, or I don't have really any interest in that at all. And just see it as a collaborative love story where everyone is kind of seen as an artist that they are, or for what they want to be seen as. Yeah. Great. Thank you so much for joining. Thank you. Thank you. I hope to see you in the backpack and recognize it. Yeah. Yeah. That would be great. Yeah. I haven't had that. And then the internet has, no one's been like, Oh my God, it's grooming, you know, to all our listeners. If you're listening, we put a link to the gallery in the show notes and then you have to be lucky, but you will see it around Amsterdam and other cities. Yes. Yes. Ciao. Ciao. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Bye.
